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4.4

Hello everyone, I'm currently involved with WFG and before anyone begins objectifying my input as that of a rah rah robot I'd like to clarify my true intentions in involving myself on this forum.

Yes, I'm currently learning from WFG but more importantly I am a father, a former service member, and a man looking to nobly earn his way to a great lifestyle by impacting people through POSITIVE/PRODUCTIVE means. If I'm wrong with my current beliefs in what WFG can do for people, I have no problem with taking it on the chin, making amends where it may be needed and finding a better calling.

My intention is to clearly lay out the reality of all variables in this discussion, and in doing so update that "not resolved" box up top. Regardless of what side that conclusion is found in favor for.

That being said, my current understand is as follows:

High COI in later years makes Transamerica FFIUL Crap,

But

That stands true only if worse case scenarios were to occur and massive amounts of people were dying. Historical trends have shown FFIULs to be worth the ACTUAL expenses incurred for the product's COI because relative to other heavily taxed alternatives, or no product at all, the FFIUL does indeed prove to be a useful tool towards retirement.

I pose this concern not as a b.s. expert, but instead as a student. Willing and ready to be 'wrong' but only if that happens to be the actual case, and not just a misconstrued and well maneuvered argument by some intelligent person whose agenda isn't furthered by what Transamerica/WFG and their flagship product is doing to the finance/insurance industry.

Here's something relevant to my current stance:

http://www.thinkadvisor.com/2015/10/23/the-top-10-iul-myths-and-how-to-debunk-them?page=2

My best,

Joe

Location: 2 Park Plaza, Irvine, CA 92614, USA

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#1440245

"Joe." Or whoever you are. Did you really want our input?

Or are you just trying to fake us? You just wanted to plug WFG and IULs?Newsflash: a life insurance polices is NOT "a useful tool towards retirement." You're confusing them with annuities.

Tell us "Joe:" How in the world you can use an IUL toward "retirement?"And I'm with the other commenters here: SHOW US THE HISTORY. You said "...Historical trends have shown FFIULs to be worth the ACTUAL expenses..." Oh yeah "Joe"?" SHOW US.

#1439689

This "reviewer" wants our "thoughts" for his "unresolved" issue with WFG. Yet he still rates this total ripoff MLM at 4.5 stars?!What a pathetic joke!Hey "Joe" you WFG toady. Kindly GTFOOH.

#1439170

Joe, the Thinkadvisor link you gave us comes from David McKnight, a highly self-promoting industry mouthpiece who wrote at least one book, "Power of Zero," that plugs IULs. The quality press didn't even bother to review this piece of shillcraft, and the top Amazon review gives it only 2 stars.Crucially, McKnight fails to substantiate his IUL growth rate claims.

He claims "...actual, verifiable rates of return..." but fails to show us even one shred of independent data to verify this claim. Joe's the McKnight problem is as simple as that. Ultimately, McKnight asks us to *believe* him.Meanwhile, we find another media presence, financial advisor Dan Thompson of Wise Money Tools, who hasn't seen even ONE still-living IUL that's even ten years old. Thompson's been a financial advisor for 32 years, long before the first IUL came on the scene in 1997.

You can search "Dan Thompson IUL" to find his videos in which he gives us compelling arguments--replete with lots of math--why folks should totally AVOID IULs.Finally, we have Valmark Financial Group a highly-rated broker/dealer that's been around for 55 years. Analysts from this group authored a paper called "Indexed Universal Life: the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly." You can search on that title to get the 7-page PDF. It's a dense read, but explains in critical detail the very deep problems in IULs. The main takeaway:"...

informed policyholders should understand these [IUL] contracts are unlikely to produce long-term returns in excess of bonds..."Joe, historically, investment-grade bonds have returned 2%--4%, currently they yield in the high 2%s/lower 3%s. Per Valmark, THAT 2%--4% is what your IUL will truly earn, not the stupidly crazy 6% and higher rates that agents and B/Ds illustrate them at.So Joe, whom do you choose to believe? Do you believe industry shill Dave McKnight who makes money off of selling and promoting IULs? Or do you believe veteran financial advisor Dan Thompson and also the highly-rated broker/dealer Valmark Financial Group, who emphasize the very high IUL fees, the IULs' low bond-like rates of return, and how B/Ds and agents almost always so badly configure IULs they just about doom these policies to crash and burn, destroying all the money the IUL holders put into them?You'll have to choose whom to believe Joe.

More importantly, you definitely should keep digging for harder and higher-quality data. Nobody should commit themselves for the rest of their lives to pouring hundreds of thousands, even millions, of their dollars into any class of financial instrument until they first get rock-solid performance data on it.Thanks for reading.

#1439122

Joe, you claim: "...Historical trends have shown ..."What "historical trends?"Joe, nobody here on the interwebs have shown us these trends anywhere at all. All we've seen so far are just unsupported claims from sales agents.Where can we find IUL performance data collected in an at one least semi-neutral place?

Neither SEC nor NAIC nor FINRA has such data on IULs.

Not that I've found anyway.Joe, maybe you will point us to that IUL performance data? Thanks.

#1439110

Hi Joe. Thanks for asking for our input and keeping an open mind.If you will allow, please let me step you through a few questions that should help clarify for you the foundational problem with IULs in general and the Transamerica's FFIUL in particular.First Q: At what annual Index Account rate of return do you illustrate Indexed Universal Life (IUL) so-called "permanent" insurance policies for your clients?

For IULs such as WFG's flagship policy, Transamerica's FFIUL?6%?

7%, 8%? Higher?Thanks Joe.

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