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Hey it's me Liquid. I was given this in response to my "You are a pyramid" accusation. They claimed that "Why would Nationwide slap their name with World Financial Group if they're a pyramid? Here's a video of Peyton Manning endorsing WFG through Nationwide and here's this as proof we aren't a pyramid"

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wEzKz84O78k

Does this make Nationwide part of the scam then?

-Liquid

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Anonymous
Hollister, California, United States #1192157

I got taken by WFG. There is no such thing as a LIRP.

Life insurance isn't retirement. I am already in the hole over 4k because I bought into the ***.

William3
Berkeley, California, United States #1187081

It's a paid celeb endorsement. So what?

Absolutely meaningless. That's like WFG buying ad spreads in Fortune. These paid spots fail to confer even one speck of legitimacy to WFG. Who know what Peyton Manning knows about financial services, if anything at all?

Folks, the actor Helena Bonham Carter pitched Yardley Cosmetics and she never wore makeup! Check out that beaut out at www dot businessinsider dot com/the-13-worst-celebrity-endorsement-fails-2012-1

Anonymous
to William3 Phoenix, Arizona, United States #1188149

So what's your response to all the well known investment companies being sued right now for scamming their employees with they're 401ks?

William3
to Anonymous Berkeley, California, United States #1188164

Phoenix Anon. You totally fail to address my comment.

How do your vague words about "investment companies" and 401(k) scams" change the fact that an WFGer gave the OP a totally bogus reason--a generic paid celeb endorsement--in a lame attempt to legitimize WFG? It's like saying "company X is great!

Cuz see?--its advert says so!" Phoenix Anon, what part of that don't you get? What’re you trying to prove?

Anonymous
to William3 #1188251

William3, I think it's a lost cause to prove a point with Phoenix Anon since they don't realize the fallacy of their own argument before publishing their comment.

Anonymous
to Anonymous #1188253

WFG isn't in any better boat. I could say yes it's wrong for those companies to scam their own employees, but nonetheless WFG isn't any better by selling risky financial products like the FFIUL or just xUL products to clients who are more than likely have to lose their plan if they live a long life. What makes WFG free of doing the same thing but just in a different method?

Anonymous
to William3 #1192068

Of course Peyton is going to endorse WFG since WFG makes good money for Nationwide. He's not saying it's a place to go work.

William3
Berkeley, California, United States #1187032

Yes Liquid, I second SF Anon's request. You may also want to post them at www dot finance-guy dot net/streetonomic/world-financial-group-review.

That comment board is active and the site appears to make it easy to post multiple docs and update them.

Thank you for your efforts Liquid! Daylight is a terrific disinfectant.

Anonymous
to William3 Houston, Texas, United States #1187077

Thanks for your post William3, I looked at the website and it was very informational on shedding light on WFG even further. Too bad my friends are in too deep to quit WFG and listen to the logic this website uses.

Anonymous
to Anonymous Lawrenceville, Georgia, United States #1190905

I fail to see any valid argument against WFG on this page. Just a group of critics who failed at using their business model.

It is not a scam period.

If employees are not coachable and do what they are taught and then decide learning financial principles and helping others apply them is a scam then why would being a teacher not also be a scam? Nobody is a paid recruiter in this company.

P.S.

I realize its a similar to the Payton Manning explanation but I have talked with financial advisors from California to Florida and I have never seen someone explain so openly with others what they are doing to help others and how their business runs.

Kaien
to Anonymous #1191158

Clearly you haven't read thoroughly enough on www dot finance-guy dot net/streetonomic/world-financial-group-review. While it's not legally considered a scam per say, there are multiple red flags that are highlighted on that site that make WFG incredibly questionable and gives reasons why you should enter WFG with high levels of scrutiny.

That can be seen as a valid argument as it provides valid reasons. Let's go through each segment.

First segment states "Finding information about how World Financial Group works is rather difficult, which we see as an early red flag." They follow up their reason with "We are assuming that their goal is to be as vague as possible so that the only way to get information is to see an agent, and receive a full sales pitch...The WFG system manual, refers to answering too many questions as the 'scenario of disaster'. They tell their associates to 'focus on selling the dream'.

Giving detailed information or answering difficult questions will lead to failure. This explains why the website was so vague..... they didn't want it to be a disaster zone!" This is clearly a red flag for many people because they should be able to receive detailed information when they ask and when they look said company up on their official website. Lack of information is not a good thing when you're trying to assess a company.

The second segment doesn't show apparent red flags since they're just describing mostly licensing which is a given that people should have one so I won't cover much here.

On their third segment, How Does The WFG Business Work, they state "We believe it is very difficult to make money with MLM, and from what we found, World Financial Group has not changed our opinion. Like most network marketing companies, WFG places a huge focus on recruiting new members. Very little attention is given to promoting their services and attracting new customers." This is another red flag.

Many people recognize how MLMs work and how they simply cannot work for lower level recruits and typically only benefit those at the top. Given that commission rises when your team grows, it shows that unless you're up there in the 'pyramid' then you won't be making much money. This is summed up by the reviewers as "The bigger your team is, the more residuals you'll earn, so keep recruiting." They continue with "The sales presentation will make you believe that all you need to do to be successful, is find three new recruits, then help them to 'duplicate' the process and find their own recruits. This duplication will lead to your team going into auto pilot.

Recruiting and fast starting is essential to your World Financial Group success. The systems manual says 'FOCUS ON 3-3-30, YOUR DREAMS CAN COME TRUE'. Once again there is no focus on actual financial planning." Again, another red flag because like they said, there is no focus on actual financial planning. If WFG claims to be heavily focused on financial planning, why do the presentations focus so much more on recruiting?

Most likely because your commission is heavily reliant on your recruits or as they again state you "will earn residual income from any sales from your entire team." WFG isn't really teaching people financial planning during their seminars like how a low cost S&P index fund can be a safe way for low income families to invest as it tries to match the market. They spew more about recruiting and dreams than what I say above.

Their 4th segment, Why Does WFG Really Focus So Much On Recruiting?, reiterates their 3rd segment and expands much more on their argument. Bringing in recruits is how you make money and you will earn commission on any products new recruits sign up for. That is again another flag because you're benefiting off each recruit because they're pressured to buy in order to "do well".

While yes they do state that buying a product is not compulsory or mandatory, they aptly follow up by stating this: "The WFG presentation however, explains that to be successful, new recruits need to be 'coachable + willing to follow a proven platform'. In other words, they need to do what they're told by their upline." Many uplines promote and pressure recruits to buy products and now we know why, because the upline would directly benefit from it even though it's not compulsory for recruits to buy. More red flags continue to appear in that same segment as they highlight how "World Financial Group expects a large number of associates to quit. In their leadership manual they refer to this as the 'Law of Averages' claiming that 'there are a lot more starters than finishers'.

They go on to tell SMDs to expect high drop out ratios and that very few people will become SMDs. So this 'Law of Averages' is based entirely on people who have previously joined WFG. World Financial Group is admitting that their system has a track record which makes quitting predictable. WFG is a system which people will drop out of." That is a very big red flag because WFG often states anyone can do it and that if they follow said method, they would be successful.

If it was as simple as that then wouldn't more people be "successful" especially if you follow what your upline says? Then the review follows up by giving the math on how many prospects are needed to move up, which is incredibly ridiculous. Given by the information provided, only 25% of prospects actually attend which means you need to meet more than 3 prospects to actually get 3. Then another 25% of those associates get licensed/registered so that means even more prospects to meet that ratio.

They continue to follow up with the amount of prospects for SMDs in that same fashion. They reinforce this by stating "Even if you duplicate the system and parrot the scripts perfectly, you can still expect 3 out 4 people who make it to a follow-up meeting, to decline to join WFG." Essentially you have work MUCH more to get that level of prospects and then to get them as registered licensed associates with that ratio. Then you may state that they can nonetheless overcome that ratio due to the "law of averages", but again they iterate that this "law of averages" is formulated by your own system. It's possible that negatives are indeed inherent in your system then if the numbers are like that.

Lastly they finalize this segment with "On the WFG website, they proudly state they they now have 50,000 licensed associates. This sounds like a good number but if we look at the WFG opportunity page, we see that in 2014 WFG signed up 120,000 new associates. The total number of licensed associates in the entire company is less than half the number of people who joined in a single year. This supports our expectation that most of the people who join WFG don't become licensed.

Does this sound like a system which is making financial dreams come true?" That is a good argument against WFG as the numbers are truly not being replicated at the level WFG states it does. If anyone can do it, follow their upline's commands, and duplicate, why isn't the success rate much higher? Of course the numbers stated are not the 2015 or 2016 numbers, but it can be expected that it is a similar rate. The numbers here though clearly state that this system isn't what it claims to be if all you have to do is be "coachable" and follow your upline's orders.

The second to last segment, What's Wrong With Using The Multi-Level Marketing Model?, clearly states the fallacy of MLMs.

You sell more dreams than products. Seminars are mainly for recruitment and they rarely provide valid financial advice. They highlight an important aspect of MLMs, there is lack of organic demand, meaning people aren't coming for the product and that they buy the said product because they believe it will fulfill financial dreams (which they don't and that can be explained, but can be said in different post since this one is already so long). Then when those clients buy products, it goes to benefit you.

You're not really educating them on finances but rather a selling a product that is said to help them financially. Additionally these products have high fees meaning the consumer pays more while you and the company get more commission. They clearly state they have ethical opposition against WFG for those reasons and the false claims. WFG claims you become a business owner, but if you read your AMA agreement, you are an independent contractor.

So you're not a business owner. Futhermore like any person that knows how to do their taxes, if you actually did your own business, you'd file as a business owner. But yet you have to file as 'self employed' due to how income is not truly passive. Finally, their final segment Should I Join World Financial Group?

sums up why people should have tons of scrutiny against WFG which is again a VALID argument. They clearly state why they see certain aspects as big red flags. They even point out another flag they didn't point out in the main segments, they have a lack of searching for people who actually have financial service experience. Many of their recruits are from warm markets, meaning friends and family, as well as those from the streets.

Why does WFG not seek out actual financial advisers? If you ask a typical WFG recruit, more than likely they haven't touched the financial industry and even more appalling does not have a business degree. Why should people trust someone that has no previous degree or years of experience in the industry to handle their money? Would you trust someone with little to no actual credentials to handle your money?

This review has a ton of valid arguments which you ironically do not make in your own statement. You make simple claims with no proof.

Not even in the review do they say they got themselves involved in WFG and 'failed'. They again make valid argument with reason, and even provided sources.

William3
to Anonymous Berkeley, California, United States #1191192

Dear, Steve, Anon, whoever. I appreciate you have views.

However unclear some of your comments may be. Trouble is, you fail to give us specifics. You say you see “...Just a group of critics who failed at using their business model...” That’s your broad sweeping opinion that you fail to support with even a shred of evidence. You say “It is not a scam period.” That’s still your sweeping opinion, however firmly you say it.

And which you again fail to support with even a shred of evidence. You say “If employees are not coachable and do what they are taught and then decide learning financial principles and helping others apply them is a scam then why would being a teacher not also be a scam? Um, Steve, what’re trying to say here? How does your first clause of your sentence relate to the second clause?

Who are the “employees?” And who suggested that “learning financial principles and helping others apply them is a scam.” Of course it’s not a scam--IF the teacher is qualified and knows what he’s talking about. Good luck finding that expertise at WFG. When I joined this MLM, I had a background in accounting and actuarial science, equity and debt trading, real estate sales and rental management, and contract law. I must tell you Steve I was floored at the financial ignorance I discovered in so many of my fellow agents.

Many of them not much older than kids and who came straight out of the trades, the service industry, and schools, e.g. LPNs, retail salespeople, undergrads. Some seemed even *proud* of their ignorance of the facts of what they represented and sold, if you can imagine that. At least they were very matter-of-fact and unapologetic.

I’ll never forget what my upline’s upline said. This man had been with WFG for 12 years. He kept insisting you can “pay off” the FFIUL even though the COI charges on that policy explode so high so fast in late life, it makes no sense at all for anyone to ever to “pay it off.” If you consider to “pay it off” in the sense of paying off a Whole Life policy to age 120, then a healthy fit non-smoking man who buys a $500k FFIUL at age 18 will need to pay almost *9 million dollars** into that b*tch just in COI charges! That *18 times* the death benefit.

If you don’t believe me Steve, just crunch the numbers in that FFIUL’s COI chart. You can find that chart on this site in the 22 July review titled “World Financial Group - Why the FFIUL--WFG’s Flagship Policy--is a *Disaster.*” Finally, my upline’s upline said simply: “You know, we don’t really study these policies in depth. We’re salespeople. It’s a people business.” Are you kidding me?!

That’s supposed to justify product ignorance? LOLLL!!!

Finally Steve, about what you say “Nobody is a paid recruiter in this company.” Oh brother here we go with this again. Let’s please skip the semantics OK Steve?

Whether it’s money or points, you VERY CLEARLY financially benefit from recruiting. It’s part of 3/3/30, it’s part of getting to the Base Pool level. The higher up the ‘mid you climb, the greater percentage of commissions you earn and you start to get overrides too. Guess what Steve?

Higher percent of commissions means MORE MONEY. Yes, you ARE, in effect, paid to recruit!

P.S. I have no idea what you’re trying to say in your Peyton Manning P.S.

comment.

Will you please explain it? Thanks.

Anonymous
San Francisco, California, United States #1187016

Liquid...Would you be able to post each page of "Your Guide to Doing Business with Nationwide Financial" for us to all read. Thank you in advance.

Anonymous
Maple Ridge, British Columbia, Canada #1187008

Great minds think alike. Type into Google "nationwide Erisa settlement". By doing business together they will make big profits.

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